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Old 09-19-2017, 04:16 PM   #41
Always God
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AG, the nervous system is sure different but please remind that the nazis started to exterminate the mentally sick people just for that reason, because their nervous system was different, not efficient.
So, even if there are different degrees of sentience, and more and less evolved nervous systems, who are we to judge which life expressions we can kill? Are we behaving like the nazis?

Whereas an 100% ethical vegan should follow the reasonings of Dr Tuttle and eat only fruit and plants which are not killed while harvested.
Even eating nuts and seeds may be regarded as unethical since they constitute potential plants, so you are killing a potential living being there. But to tell the truth I'm not sure when the vegetable consciousness 'incarnates' into a nut. Before or after sprouting? If after then it's ethical to eat unsprouted nuts & seeds.

OK with the following, except carrots, tubers, roots, for example. Also, it may be regarded as unethical to plant tomato plants only to harvest their fruit and then let the plants dry up and die.
I do not think we really being honest with ourselves if we feel the same about killing an animal and a plant …. any plant ! These kind of arguments are just meant to confound and cloud the discussion, and are usually made by people who are not willing to give up their animal products.

it just blows my mind that a person would stop eating sprouts because they’re “babies”, and yet have no problem with a real baby (a calf) being taken from its mother at birth, and later slaughtered.
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Old 09-19-2017, 04:51 PM   #42
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I do not think we really being honest with ourselves if we feel the same about killing an animal and a plant …. any plant ! These kind of arguments are just meant to confound and cloud the discussion, and are usually made by people who are not willing to give up their animal products.
Of course it's not the same thing, but conceptually we are guilty of a similar crime, killing living beings when there is a different choice

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it just blows my mind that a person would stop eating sprouts because they’re “babies”, and yet have no problem with a real baby (a calf) being taken from its mother at birth, and later slaughtered.
My attitude was that as far as I didn't eat calves it wasn't a big deal. Of course it may not be so for us but sure it is for calf and cow.
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Old 09-19-2017, 09:14 PM   #43
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:17 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by mccoy View Post
AG, the nervous system is sure different but please remind that the nazis started to exterminate the mentally sick people just for that reason, because their nervous system was different, not efficient.
So, even if there are different degrees of sentience, and more and less evolved nervous systems, who are we to judge which life expressions we can kill? Are we behaving like the nazis?

Whereas an 100% ethical vegan should follow the reasonings of Dr Tuttle and eat only fruit and plants which are not killed while harvested.
Even eating nuts and seeds may be regarded as unethical since they constitute potential plants, so you are killing a potential living being there. But to tell the truth I'm not sure when the vegetable consciousness 'incarnates' into a nut. Before or after sprouting? If after then it's ethical to eat unsprouted nuts & seeds.

OK with the following, except carrots, tubers, roots, for example. Also, it may be regarded as unethical to plant tomato plants only to harvest their fruit and then let the plants dry up and die.
lol mccoy, guess there isn't anything that you can eat....but starving yourself to death would be very anti-ahimsa and not following Divine Will- human birth is a great blessing because we can seek God, animals can't.

Actually, I remember reading Master saying if you looked at any food under a microscope, there really isn't anything you can eat that isn't alive.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:52 PM   #45
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Read your own posts. They speak for themselves. Can I suggest you discuss the issues and stop trying to argue ad hominem. If you wish to take issue with what I have said, do that. Do not let poison infect your arrows.

And if you don't like to discuss, then do not discuss. What am I attributing to you you did not say?
Had to look up the Latin term....hmm, maybe, but let's see...nah, don't have any desire to do this - "discuss' as you call it.

Good cause, but don't think your methods are going change things, in fact they seem rather non-ahimsa...you mentioned Master - if he were incarnate now, maybe he wouldn't eat cheese, drink milk, but would he tell everyone that did that they were unethical, supporting cruelty, just all-around terrible human beings?...ok, maybe you don't go quite that far, but you get my point.

Unless and until many more people evolve spiritually, and the treatment of cows, chickens becomes something people will care about, it probably won't change.....people drink milk, eat cheese and eggs...are families trying to feed hungry mouths going to pay twice, three times as much to buy them? Are dairy farms going to change and sell their dairy for prices that no-one will pay?

And BTW, my saying that Sri Yuk ate fish and eggs prior to becoming a swami - one of the "others" you said I used to justify my point - was more about that, as Master said, it's more important what comes out of your mouth than what goes in it ( and yes, i recently read in The Lessons where Master said this, so correct context)...Master of course said diet was important, but he also said there were ruthless tyrants who were vegetarians, and great souls who might eat meat/fish etc..

You are sincere....I don't have the time, or desire, or the typing skill to carry this any further, so keep on, and Jai Guru
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Old Yesterday, 09:09 AM   #46
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Had to look up the Latin term....hmm, maybe, but let's see...nah, don't have any desire to do this - "discuss' as you call it.

Good cause, but don't think your methods are going change things, in fact they seem rather non-ahimsa...you mentioned Master - if he were incarnate now, maybe he wouldn't eat cheese, drink milk, but would he tell everyone that did that they were unethical, supporting cruelty, just all-around terrible human beings?...ok, maybe you don't go quite that far, but you get my point.

Unless and until many more people evolve spiritually, and the treatment of cows, chickens becomes something people will care about, it probably won't change.....people drink milk, eat cheese and eggs...are families trying to feed hungry mouths going to pay twice, three times as much to buy them? Are dairy farms going to change and sell their dairy for prices that no-one will pay?

And BTW, my saying that Sri Yuk ate fish and eggs prior to becoming a swami - one of the "others" you said I used to justify my point - was more about that, as Master said, it's more important what comes out of your mouth than what goes in it ( and yes, i recently read in The Lessons where Master said this, so correct context)...Master of course said diet was important, but he also said there were ruthless tyrants who were vegetarians, and great souls who might eat meat/fish etc..

You are sincere....I don't have the time, or desire, or the typing skill to carry this any further, so keep on, and Jai Guru
No one is asking you to discuss this ad infinitum. Simply be open and honest and look at the facts and apply the spiritual principles in your life.

Jai Guru, and blessings.
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Old Today, 12:00 AM   #47
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I don't know what's your diet Mike, but I admire your inner peace....
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Old Today, 11:51 AM   #48
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AG, the nervous system is sure different but please remind that the nazis started to exterminate the mentally sick people just for that reason, because their nervous system was different, not efficient.
So, even if there are different degrees of sentience, and more and less evolved nervous systems, who are we to judge which life expressions we can kill? Are we behaving like the nazis?

Whereas an 100% ethical vegan should follow the reasonings of Dr Tuttle and eat only fruit and plants which are not killed while harvested.
Even eating nuts and seeds may be regarded as unethical since they constitute potential plants, so you are killing a potential living being there. But to tell the truth I'm not sure when the vegetable consciousness 'incarnates' into a nut. Before or after sprouting? If after then it's ethical to eat unsprouted nuts & seeds.

OK with the following, except carrots, tubers, roots, for example. Also, it may be regarded as unethical to plant tomato plants only to harvest their fruit and then let the plants dry up and die.
Love this mccoy! - I am vegan for 98 percent.....just have some jogurt products from time to time but from an organic organisation which is known and certified for best treatment of cows and their calfes. Just found truely great vegan cheese products which I do eat sometimes. Mostly made of almonds. I do not eat tofu - stopped 12 years ago, made me sick. I am fine - taking some D3 regulary. Artificial meat products no - but all is a gift from God when handled with respect and love. Today I did complain in my market about the way they treat the flower pots, these are always starving for water. Other markets do water regulary and the greens are great. They looked at me in a strange way, but I went on saying that creation should be respected as we do for people...! Well - I liked this....!The line at the chasiers got big ears....

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Old Today, 01:05 PM   #49
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ghandi111.jpg

The subject of respecting the lives of all animals is no trivial matter. It may be the most important topic of our generation, which is one reason why it is so denied and argued against by, and threatening to, even 'spiritual' people; and not surprisingly you see that here in direct and indirect ways. Folks have a difficult time letting go of their cherished paradigms. But truth is the only paradigm worth fighting for.

Love all beings.
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Old Today, 02:34 PM   #50
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AG, since you cited the great exponent of Ahimsa, this is a book which I read 40 years ago and which inspired me, expecially the dietary experiments of Gandhi and his disciples:


In the book he recounts that he quit eating milk and would eat a diet of raw fruit and nuts (no violence even on plants). He eventually got so sick that he accepted very unwillingly to drink goat's milk. This is to reiterate that vegan diets, especially the most extreme, are not tolerated by everyone, and Gandhi was extremely motivated.

Interestingly, I tried to emulate him with a similar diet and went sick as well.

Whereas presently I'm following a strict scientific approach to avoid deficiencies, and it is working.
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Old Today, 02:43 PM   #51
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Love this mccoy! - I am vegan for 98 percent.....just have some jogurt products from time to time but from an organic organisation which is known and certified for best treatment of cows and their calfes. Just found truely great vegan cheese products which I do eat sometimes. Mostly made of almonds. I do not eat tofu - stopped 12 years ago, made me sick. I am fine - taking some D3 regulary. Artificial meat products no - but all is a gift from God when handled with respect and love. Today I did complain in my market about the way they treat the flower pots, these are always starving for water. Other markets do water regulary and the greens are great. They looked at me in a strange way, but I went on saying that creation should be respected as we do for people...! Well - I liked this....!The line at the chasiers got big ears....
Hi sulmonte,
glad to hear you are being successful with your experiment with veganism, I'm faring pretty good as well. No problem whatsoever with that 2% non-vegan. Actually, even the strict vegan doctors like McDougall and Fuhrman, the latter proposing a diet based mainly on vegetables, fruit, a little cereals and nuts, advise to eat some animal food once in a while.

In another thread we have observed that the apes, whose digestive system and metabolism we evolutionary inherited, are not 100% vegan but do eat some insects and occasionally even meat. And your care to choose ahimsa products would be sure approved even by AlwaysGod.

I don't know why tofu is giving problems to so many people, if it is organic tofu without additives than it is the lectins or isoflavones from soy which may not be well tolerated.

Also, tofu by itself is pretty bland and tasteless, so it should be seasoned or cooked properly, the same often applies to beans and legumes actually.
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