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Old 09-10-2017, 10:06 AM   #161
khitomer
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Would it help if I told you I have this feeling about what Ive been saying, as a gut-feeling; an intuition? No beliefs or framework of beliefs necessary.

Brando still held beliefs. Its what made him support Native Americans and make anti-semitic remarks about Hollywood.

Aside from this, I dont recall asking you once to invest anything into what I said. I began by merely stating my opinion about why America is no longer free, and the cause of it as I and many others see it.

Peace.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:28 AM   #162
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Aside from this, I dont recall asking you once to invest anything into what I said. I began by merely stating my opinion about why America is no longer free, and the cause of it as I and many others see it.

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To truly understand how America is more and more losing her freedom, one should inquire into the 'Frankfurt school' of Marxists and how they turned Marx's economic focus into one of subverting cultural values as a whole through 'critical theory', giving rise to the identity politics of the left.
You're right. You didn't ask me to invest anything. You just proclaimed your belief as a statement of truth.

And I'm equally wrong, because I opened this thread at a time that I still cared about the state of America, and therefore it would have been nicer to stay on topic and not to pull things into a more abstract view.

Brando had some ideals that he stood up for. He stood up for the downtrodden. I could relate that back to your earlier statement about the politics of the left, but I get the sense that you don't like to be contradicted. The beauty of Brando is that everybody told him how great he was, and it meant nothing to him. He knew they were just spinning a tale, and it held no reality to him.

Since time has passed since I opened this topic I'll just add that I won't get into political discussions anymore, because they basically address the sickness of the human mind, and politics offer no solution for that sickness, and more often than not plays the divide-and-conquer card, which deepens the investment (of the ego) into duality. I remain astounded by Gandhi, who played his part on the political stage, without ever buying into its duality or any of its philosophies - for or against -, and adhered solely to Sanatana Dharma.

There are plenty of great or positive examples in the world, but to analyze what people do wrong is less interesting, because it's always the same thing. The investment of ego into a belief.
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:43 AM   #163
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I think caring about the state of America is justified; its what Master did as well. Just that he was secure in the knowledge that God and the ascent of the yugas would fulfil her bright destiny, and wasnt concerned with the inevitable hardships and downturns. Not for nothing did America become the grand experiment in freedom, and as Master said, along with Indian spirituality, the guiding light of nations to usher in a higher age.

Far as I know, Brando had his ups and downs as well. He was no saint, but had charisma in spades, thats for sure. A few years back I saw a biopic of him (Brando Unauthorized) that highlighted several amusing incidents from his chequered life. Have read somewhere he got into Master later in life, and used to wear an SRF pin on his lapel.

I dont mind being contradicted by valid arguments, but getting involved in discussions that are resolutely contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, or with those who appear to enjoy going off on unrelated tangents, sometimes irks me. For that I have only myself to blame.

Thats not to say you dont have valid points to make of your own, or that we wouldnt have less friction talking about other topics.

I think I know what you mean though, about dwelling on the collective delusions of people. Here's a good quote I came across the other day:

"The nature of mind is such that it becomes that which it thinks upon intensely. Thus if you think of the vices and defects of others, your mind will be charged with those defects and vices at least for the time being. He who knows this psychological law, will never indulge in censuring others."

~ Swami Sivananda
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:09 PM   #164
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Interesting, some of this anyway....taking a break (I work from home) so I going to add some of my thoughts - sorry to interrupt

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Master was an extremely inspired individual. The ideas he had were great. We can compare that to the causal realm.
Master is an avatar, so he goes beyond any terms such as extremely inspired...it's like saying God is extremely inspired....sure, Avatars all have a part to play in God's lila, and who can understand but God (and I suppose an avatar)

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The direction of Master's organization is determined by its president. If we assume that this person is in tune with Master, then, by the same power of ideas, Master can drop his ideas into the receptive mind of that individual.

SRF is proceeding at a snail's pace, and for many of us the outer changes that could have benefited our sadhana will not happen during our lifetime. That is disappointing, especially since we took on a 'no-guru-in-the-body' type of environment. But that disappointment is the result of an expectation, and an expectation is just another unfounded belief.
Actually, no, the direction is determined by Master, Babaji....Yes, I would say that all SRF presidents (now and in future) are in tune with Master ....does that mean they and SRF as a whole doesn't have to struggle and overcome obstacles? Obviously not, but yes, all SRF presidents have, I daresay perfect attunement with Master....if that is blind belief by your standards, oh well....

As far as these outer changes by SRF that could have benefited our sadhana....well, as you somewhat said ^^, that is just a desire you have that doesn't fall in step with God and Guru's plan....

Sure, like in the Saint Maduski story, we have to ask for guidance, and then take action, but yeah, I do believe once you've willed, reasoned etc....God is the Doer, do your best to take action that feels right, and give it to God/Guru...(easier said than done lol, still working on this of course)

So in a much higher manner, actions ultimately taken by SRF....yes, Master is in charge!

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I was watching an interview with Marlon Brando the other day. On the Dick Cavett show (on Youtube). He looked absolutely straight through the interviewer. Brando could do so because he had freed himself from beliefs. He's very honest with himself; which is what allowed him to be completely relaxed and a great actor.
Nothing against Brando, he is by most standards a great actor (I'm not actually a fan of his stuff, but he does have acting skills), but doubt very much he is free from beliefs....I'm no saint myself, so can't say Brando is not one, but I doubt it....he is,as a famous actor, able to have platform in the media, etc, and no doubt has stood up for some causes, so good for him there!

Ok, back to work...
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:51 AM   #165
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Far as I know, Brando had his ups and downs as well. He was no saint, but had charisma in spades, thats for sure. A few years back I saw a biopic of him (Brando Unauthorized) that highlighted several amusing incidents from his chequered life. Have read somewhere he got into Master later in life, and used to wear an SRF pin on his lapel.

I dont mind being contradicted by valid arguments, but getting involved in discussions that are resolutely contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, or with those who appear to enjoy going off on unrelated tangents, sometimes irks me. For that I have only myself to blame.

Thats not to say you dont have valid points to make of your own, or that we wouldnt have less friction talking about other topics.

I think I know what you mean though, about dwelling on the collective delusions of people. Here's a good quote I came across the other day:

"The nature of mind is such that it becomes that which it thinks upon intensely. Thus if you think of the vices and defects of others, your mind will be charged with those defects and vices at least for the time being. He who knows this psychological law, will never indulge in censuring others."

~ Swami Sivananda
That wouldn't surprise me about Brando. He doesn't have to be a saint to be a friend or soul brother.

As to contrarian views. I'm not opposed to those, in general, if only because it is an unwritten law that whatever the vast majority of people agree upon is typically wrong.

With regards to the World Crisis prediction, I haven't read it for a long time. I seem to recall it stated that we would have to go back to the land, and that if we did not think it so we would find that we were mistaken. Something along those lines. So if that was the prediction, I would simply point out that the great majority of people alive when that prediction was made did indeed go back to the land. As in six feet under.

If each new generation wishes to embrace that prediction as their own, who am I to question it? As long as I don't have to eat all the cans of beans that they stockpiled away.

Rather than wonder about the expiration date - on either the beans or the prediction - I would attach greater value to the image of mass karma as a snowball, because it can increase in size, yet also be scattered into smaller snowballs. Would that be too contrarian? Master used this image to describe the world just after the second world war. He made it clear that things would continue to go from bad to worse if we did not change, and this seemed to be in reference to the 20th century (I could pull up the quote, but you'll probably remember it from the AY). So, at least within that frame of reference, mankind did change. The 20th century did not see another world war. Granted, that prediction was more veiled, but that doesn't change the underlying principle.

Finally, as to 'America'. It reminds me of something that Einstein said. That a problem can not be solved at the level it was created. In other words, he's referring to a paradigm shift or a form of transcending. The divisions that run through America today seem too deep to solve. And yet, all it would require is a change in consciousness, such as brought to the table by Master. Was his influence, as Jagadguru and father of yoga in west, so great that he changed the course of history? It would not surprise me.

So what we are down to, in our little argument, is this: you say that Master is great and that therefore his prediction must come true. And I merely add that his influence may be so great that his prediction may not come true. At all hours, for many decades now, there are Kriya yogis meditating around the world. Not a day goes by that the sun does not witness this, not a night that the moon doesn't observe it. It must have an effect, wouldn't you think so?

I can't help but end on a contrarian note. America, I was told by a now deceased SRF swami, was discovered in this Yuga cycle at the same time as Atlantis in the previous cycle. Atlantis went down not long after the zenith of the cycle. So, perhaps, when all is said and done, we're not going back to the land, but to the sea.
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Old 09-14-2017, 08:45 AM   #166
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It sounded like you were trying to make out like Brando had transcended beliefs, which doesnt appear to be the case. I wasnt knocking the spiritual worth of the guy, just pointing out that based on what Ive read and watched about him, he was actually a lot more like the rest of us than you made him sound. I dont believe hed basically given up beliefs at all. What he did do was express certain unique points of view on unpopular subjects, and isolate himself from the crowds who made him feel uncomfortable about the cult of his celebrity. He did however gaslight people a lot, including on set, and occasionally inspire mistrust and rage with near and dear ones due to infamous fits of maddening behaviour. Perhaps he was a massive contrarian :D

The definition of contrarianism is being generally opposed to the popular view. But I tend to further conceptualize it as someone who opposes for the sake of opposition, as when someone simply disagrees with just about everything, just to be difficult. There are a lot of people doing that on the internet. I heard an interesting theory that says much of it has to do with not being heard as a kid. Im sure Im guilty of it at times myself.

And no, I dont just believe in a world crisis coming because of faith in the Guru's words, but because the signs of a collapse of the US dollar at some point are highlighted in bold relief. For the first time in history the debt went past 20 trillion the other day, and the Fed has been inflating the economy by printing ridiculous volume of dollars since the gfc. Just like a bubble collapsed the housing market then, a bubble is blowing up in the entire economy now. Hyper inflation is when the value of currency goes down due to too much of it in circulation, and thats relevant to what Master said about it not being worth the paper its printed on.

My gut feeling about the world crisis I described earlier, has to do with the fact that realistically the 'spiritual socialism' described by the masters will only gradually be adopted through necessity. As a libertarian, I dont see big government relinquishing power without being forced to through disastrous events that will limit its capacity to govern the nation. Thats when local communities banding together will figure things out. And its in line with what the Guru said.

Atlantis is fascinating. Apparently, according to both Norm Paulsen and Edgar Cayce, there were three separate destructions over its lifetime as a civilisation that occurred there. The cause of one or two was an attack by the Nephilim using an asteroid, while the third was the result of misuse of their crystalline technology that harnessed the power of the sun, causing undersea earthquakes and tidal waves. If the Russians do indeed secretly have advanced HAARP weapons as some have claimed, natural disasters are definitely a possibility. But the US landmass overall is too large to be sunk entirely. Atlantis was a much smaller landmass located in the Bahamas, according to Cayce.

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Old 09-15-2017, 10:34 AM   #167
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I

The definition of contrarianism is being generally opposed to the popular view. But I tend to further conceptualize it as someone who opposes for the sake of opposition, as when someone simply disagrees with just about everything, just to be difficult. There are a lot of people doing that on the internet. I heard an interesting theory that says much of it has to do with not being heard as a kid. Im sure Im guilty of it at times myself.

And no, I dont just believe in a world crisis coming because of faith in the Guru's words, but because the signs of a collapse of the US dollar at some point are highlighted in bold relief. For the first time in history the debt went past 20 trillion the other day, and the Fed has been inflating the economy by printing ridiculous volume of dollars since the gfc. Just like a bubble collapsed the housing market then, a bubble is blowing up in the entire economy now. Hyper inflation is when the value of currency goes down due to too much of it in circulation, and thats relevant to what Master said about it not being worth the paper its printed on.
Contrarianism is a valuable asset in the realm of investing. Any truthseeker would have be considered contrarian. They embrace the great Unknown, don't they? It is probably the quality I first look for in people. "Do you think for yourself or do you let others dictate your opinions to you?" But I would not use terms that would place people in boxes like that. (a subconscious attempt to control or establish control through a funneling off to known groups; 'heretics', 'conspiracy theorists'). As free thinkers we can agree on many things, and agree to disagree on others.

The US has been able to print money out of thin air, without the dollar losing much value, because of the petrodolllar. For the first time we see organized opposition to this through the BRICS countries. When countries went against the petrodollar individually 'regime change' was their fate. (it is interesting that people in the west actually went along with the idea of implementing a regime; as inherent in 'regime change'). Needless to say, the US has long feared the destruction of the petrodollar and has spun all sorts of tales to warrant wars in its defense. As such, the wealth enjoyed by the present US population is largely build upon the misery of other nations... Can that last very long, if only from a karmic perspective?

The China/Russia axis that we see developing today is interested in a greater balance of power in the world, which flies in the face of the neocon view that there should be only one superpower. The good thing, however, is that the new axis doesn't appear to be interested in the destruction of the petrodollar. They are too sophisticated for that, because they know that if the US economy crashes it will take down the world economy with it.

A big part of the problem in the US itself is the not-so-federal, as in privately owned, Federal Reserve Bank, which controls the flow of money and thereby the US economy and political power. We've discussed this here in the past, and one could trace the money changers back to the days of Christ. The original free America was free of the controlling influence of banks. The American Dream is based on that, and it is why the US prospered far beyond the rest of the world. Since 1913, however, we have been losing that fight. Is it truly a coincidence that Washington, father of the independent nation, is on the one dollar bill, and Woodrow Wilson, who sold out the nation in 1913, is on the $100,000 bill?

Abraham Lincoln warned against the present takeover by corporations. I've quoted it before:

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"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

-- U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864
Of course such a dynamic would have to be destroyed, and that, to me, is what Master was referring to in his World Crisis prediction. Today's highly integrated world, however, is a far cry from the relatively simple world he made that prediction in, on the heels of the Great Depression. There are too many unknowns, too many invariables, for (relevant) countries to really take a stance. Nobody really knows the destructive cards the other holds. It was easy when it was 'just' atom bombs, but with cyber attacks potentially taking out entire infrastructures? Perhaps, in today's highly integrated world we are forced to come together, whether we like it or not.

Whatever the exact size of Atlantis, I sure wouldn't mind locating their internet and downloading their bitcoin...
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:04 PM   #168
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This is where omniscience is not circumscribed by the "world one is in". Im sure youve heard the stories about how Guruji would often react to individuals he met for the first time based on their actions in past lives, for example. In Patanjali Yogasutra, it says that the prefected yogi knows the past and the future by performing samyama (dharana, dhyana and samadhi together) on the present.

Like the time he was talking about SRF and suddenly saw how the teaching would be changed in certain ways after he was physically absent.

All the stuff about money, thats precisely the libertarian view about big government circumventing the constitutional rights of Americans, and creating an environment of corruption, inviting special interests and cronying up capitalism. Its also what Kriyananda said the Guru hinted about how Marxists will infiltrate US academia and politics to bring down the economy (from within). Wouldnt surprise me if some of the triggers within the Fed were on the far left consciously acting against US sovereignty and the liberty of the individual. Just the fact theyre printing trillions and inflating the bubble shows they are reckless at the very least.
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:20 PM   #169
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There are no Marxists anymore in the world...they all want power, fame and big money!!! :-) Leftists are nearly out of all political actions. Much work was done to change peoples minds.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:23 PM   #170
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Leftists are Marxists. They are 'cultural' Marxists. Through academia, what used to be Marx's focus on inciting class struggle of workers vs capital, has become minorities vs white patriarchy. They do this through teaching critical theory at universities, exploiting the oppressed minority narratives of race, gender and sexuality to accomplish their aims. The left's populism basically runs on 'identity politics.'
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Old 09-16-2017, 09:11 AM   #171
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This is where omniscience is not circumscribed by the "world one is in". Im sure youve heard the stories about how Guruji would often react to individuals he met for the first time based on their actions in past lives, for example. In Patanjali Yogasutra, it says that the prefected yogi knows the past and the future by performing samyama (dharana, dhyana and samadhi together) on the present.

Like the time he was talking about SRF and suddenly saw how the teaching would be changed in certain ways after he was physically absent.

All the stuff about money, thats precisely the libertarian view about big government circumventing the constitutional rights of Americans, and creating an environment of corruption, inviting special interests and cronying up capitalism. Its also what Kriyananda said the Guru hinted about how Marxists will infiltrate US academia and politics to bring down the economy (from within). Wouldnt surprise me if some of the triggers within the Fed were on the far left consciously acting against US sovereignty and the liberty of the individual. Just the fact theyre printing trillions and inflating the bubble shows they are reckless at the very least.
0ne could learn to see the individual seed blueprint at the idea level as well its most likely unfoldment. Yet it is also clear from Master's explanation about astrology that the future is not set in stone.

It is not really surprising that Kriyananda would talk of such things as marxism etc. He himself was a firm believer (!) in a positive concept, but he lacked the ability to see the larger consequences of acting on that belief. As such, he sowed the seeds of division or duality. This is what 'belief' does. One person believes this, the other believes that, and along with it comes a deepened experience of duality. Wouldn't it be more constructive to drop our beliefs and see how relative and subjective they really are? The alternative is that one seeks to push his beliefs on the other, -the typical way -, but it will solve nothing. Gandhi showed the non-confrontational way in the political arena through his Satyagraha movement. He also demonstrated that not everyone will be on board. The division (!) of Pakistan and Bangladesh was the result of strong believers (..) in this, and his assassination the act of a firm believer (..) in that. It's always the same story. The only things that change are the beliefs. Beliefs solve nothing. For change we have to look deeper.

Was Gandhi truly non-confrontational? Not in the slightest. He was the most confrontational of all, because he allowed people a look in the mirror and see what they really looked like. The beauty is that he was willing to sacrifice his life for that idea. What was the idea? Transformation comes from within.

The above, perhaps. goes to show why spiritual communities can only truly work if at the heart of each is a saint. This process can't be rushed, because, if it is, the standard isn't set high enough. Everybody in a spiritual community is aware of the quality of the gemstone that is set at the top of the pyramid. If it is perfect, that is the standard for all to strive for. If it is flawed, that is a standard as well.
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Old 09-18-2017, 11:26 AM   #172
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High ranking CIA whistleblower lays it all out. Deep State, shadow government, the whole thing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=XHbrOg092GA

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...dow-government
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Old 09-18-2017, 12:23 PM   #173
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High ranking CIA whistleblower lays it all out. Deep State, shadow government, the whole thing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=XHbrOg092GA

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...dow-government
Hmm....interesting. What is all this about Sept. 23 - some vedic astrologer did talk about this also these days.
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:11 PM   #174
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I wouldn't know about the date, but that former CIA agent laying out the entire shadowy infrastructure, as it operates behind the scenes, could be one small step in the long process of removing a deeply corrupt power structure. I think it marks a point of revelation, albeit only in the political realm, that we have not seen during our lifetime. It's as if we're living in a movie, like Lord of the Rings. Only this one is even stranger.
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