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Old 01-04-2018, 09:47 AM   #81
Jack O Lantern
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Time has proven Lincoln's warning to be prophetic. The field of politics was his expertise. He had deeply studied it and could see the influences developing behind the scenes when others did not. The statement is a credit to his political vision and wisdom.

If you wish to give every political word Master spoke the same significance as the eternal Yoga teachings he brought, don't let me keep you from it.

Did the world change since Master's mahasamadhi? Who better to ask than Eisenhower? On January 17th, 1961 at the end (!) of his presidency, he issued a strong warning:



The last president to warn against the military industrial complex? JFK. Why has no other president reissued the warning? That's a question not very hard to answer...
So Lincoln who was not an Avatar, stated political views that are timeless and eternal.

Paramahansa Yogananda who was an Avatar, stated political views that only apply to the time period he lived in.


( greedy and nefarious) "Military Industrial Complex"


Right ! That's the next sacrament the Left uses to trash the motives and noble purpose of the USA within the world political dynamic.

It's obvious that in a free economy, some greedy bad apples will emerge and try to take advantage of ANY situation just to make money, and no doubt, there are some in industry and government, who would do that, just as there are in every business. There are politicians in bed and partnered with many lobbies and companies, getting kickbacks and stealing taxpayer money. You hear about them every few weeks being investigated and indicted.

That does not detract from the noble purpose (despite its flaws and sins) of the USA on the world stage, and the Guru recognized that inherent attribute of the U.S. and that characteristic within the hearts of the American people.
Brother Bhavananda also expressed that same observation to me.
It is the degradation of traditional religious morals in society which has led to corruption in the government, and society, not only in the USA but around the world. Daya Mata warned against this very specific factor within American society, and the world, encouraging us to return to the principles of the 10 Commandments (yama niyama).

No offense meant, but your sympathy and empathy for the motives of North Korea while at the same time displaying a cynical view of the motives of the USA are revealing and troubling. Daya Ma also said, "you can't carry logic to ridiculous conclusions". That usually happens when you are too open to relative thinking, and lose a moral compass, as the Leftist intellectual religious (read "Marxist religion") leaders have imposed upon the world in the minds of humans, utilizing open ended logic for intellectual deconstruction of everything with endless "praxis" analysis.
That is usually based consciously or unconsciously in any worldview related to Cultural Marxism, even if it is not called by that name as they redefine what "morality' is, disengage morality from its spiritual foundation, and assign new progressive Marxist style definitions to morality and eagerly undermine true spiritual virtue, to achieve so called, "social justice" based on a Marxist style utopia, devoid of spiritual virtue. Then the only "virtue" possible is an upside down view of the world such as, "I understand North Koreas sensible motives, but abhor and find repugnant the current motives of a country like the United States". Then good becomes evil and evil becomes good.



The Praxis school was a Marxist humanist philosophical movement, whose members were influenced by the Western Marxist movement.[1]. It originated in Zagreb and Belgrade in the SFR Yugoslavia, during the 1960s.

Prominent figures among the school's founders include Gajo Petrović and Milan Kangrga of Zagreb and Mihailo Marković of Belgrade. From 1964 to 1974 they published the Marxist journal Praxis, which was renowned as one of the leading international journals in Marxist theory. The group also organized the widely popular Korčula Summer School in the island of Korčula.

Due to the tumultuous sociopolitical conditions in the 1960s, the affirmation of 'authentic' Marxist theory and praxis, and its humanist and dialectical aspects in particular, was an urgent task for philosophers working across the SFRY. There was a need to respond to the kind of modified Marxism–Leninism enforced by the League of Communists of Yugoslavia (see Titoism). To vocalize and therefore begin to satisfy this need, the program of Praxis school was defined in French in the first issue of the International edition of Praxis: A quoi bon Praxis. Predrag Vranicki (On the problem of Practice) and Danko Grlić (Practice and Dogma) expanded this program in English in the same issue (Praxis, 1965, 1, p. 41-48 and p. 49-58).

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Old 01-04-2018, 03:19 PM   #82
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Lincoln was a Republican. So was Eisenhower. Both extended clear warnings. Eisenhower was quite detailed in his explanation, and wise to only give this warning when he left office. JFK was brave to repeat the warning while in office, and gave one of the most sincere speeches I have ever heard from any president. He would be the last president to offer such a warning.

The way you brush off their sincere warnings does not suggest a very deep interest in America and its core values.

As to Yogananda and Korea, you haven't even taken the trouble to share his statement. Let's see it. With a few paragraphs attached if possible, so the context can be established.
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:35 PM   #83
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Lincoln was a Republican. So was Eisenhower. Both extended clear warnings. Eisenhower was quite detailed in his explanation, and wise to only give this warning when he left office. JFK was brave to repeat the warning while in office, and gave one of the most sincere speeches I have ever heard from any president. He would be the last president to offer such a warning.

The way you brush off their sincere warnings does not suggest a very deep interest in America and its core values.

As to Yogananda and Korea, you haven't even taken the trouble to share his statement. Let's see it. With a few paragraphs attached if possible, so the context can be established.
"No deep interest"....LOL....No use to respond to that one.
As I said, you hold Lincolns words as eternal and timeless, and Masters words as only valid within the short time period he lived. Who is the Cosmic Avatar of those two, existing "beyond duality"?

Regarding Eisenhower, I already addressed that.

The way you coddle and empathize with Americas enemies, who are also the enemies of the Free World, and refuse to accept the general goodness and purpose of the USA as a force for good in the world, (as the Guru has explained). Instead, entertain anti-American views such as, "The US is the most dangerous country in the world" while using the up and down flux of national growth to achieve those idealistic principles this country was founded on, as a reason to have a cynical view of the USA then sympathize with the anti-American mentality of many people, raises questions about your understanding.

Using "Idealistic" pie in the sky views as an excuse to reject the imperfect but noble country the USA is, is a good cop out.

As far as Master and what he said about the USA, Haven't you read the SRF books and publications? Look through the various SRF books and you will find those ideas. I'm not going to sit for hours scouring all the SRF publications for those quotes and do the work for you. But even if you find those quotes of the Master about the USA, you are already convinced that the Gurus views were limited and boxed in by the short time period in which he was incarnate and that those views to not apply to todays world.
So what is the point of you discovering the Gurus quotes anyway if you think they are only relevant to a limited time period?

The Guru was aware of the sins of the USA and also its Nobility and Goodness. Also, there are thoughts that the Guru has expressed only to the senior, direct renuncients, which are not in any SRF publication. You would have to talk with those direct renuncients, and since they are all passing away, with few left, you should act soon.
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Old 01-04-2018, 06:16 PM   #84
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See ya later, Jack. For some reason you came to a forum of devotees to try to pick fights, and I wish you good luck on that journey. It's just a question of how I wish to use my time, so not personal.
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:05 PM   #85
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Wrong conclusion Stream.

The original subject here is the condemnation of the USA for a policy decision by the majority of UN members including those countries hostile to the very existence and influence of the U.S. and those countries who are blind and submissive to the real threats facing the world community.

It's simply a matter of either having a positive or negative view on the role of the USA in the world, and where the greatest threats to world cooperation and peace lie.
You have stated that you agree with the view of those who say, "the USA is the most dangerous country in the world" and you have a sympathetic shoulder for the N. Korean regime.

The dichotomy lies there and that is the issue.

I was also tiring of our debate as it was getting nowhere due to the wide gulf between how we see the role of the USA, and the threats to the world political situation. It's not just the USA as western civilization is under attack in case you haven't noticed. Master envisioned a harmonious exchange between the East and West, not the destruction of the West by tyrants and totalitarians and that destruction is born in the mind first, then implemented on the physical plane.

You should look up Masters praise of the United States in the SRF books.

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Old 01-05-2018, 03:59 AM   #86
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It's simply a matter of either having a positive or negative view on the role of the USA in the world, and where the greatest threats to world cooperation and peace lie.
You have stated that you agree with the view of those who say, "the USA is the most dangerous country in the world" and you have a sympathetic shoulder for the N. Korean regime.

The dichotomy lies there and that is the issue.
I have not stated sympathy for North Korea, but have simply followed the 'do unto others ...' paradigm, or the 'seek to understand, rather than be understood' from St Francis.

From a leadership view, regardless of the nation involved, I would commend any leader for developing whatever means necessary to keep the nation from being overtaken by a foreign power. If it were America, you would agree, would you not?

The regime in a country may not be to our liking, but if we wish to be respected as a sovereign nation, we should extend the same respect to others. It is only when a nation becomes an aggressor nation that we should revisit this issue. North Korea nor Iran have proven themselves to be aggressor nations. They do have something in common, that ties into the unfortunate corporatocracy theme.

The question that requires our serious national introspection is whether or not the US has become an aggressor nation. You seem to think that we export nobility. It is good to have a sense of pride about what the nation stands for. And the United States is still much preferable over the rest of the world in terms of freedom. But it won't be much longer if we are not more vigilant. Most great civilizations of the past were not destroyed by a foreign power, but from within.

It's all related. If you follow the money, the picture will change quite drastically.

Finally, as to Master and world politics, he hinted in the World Crisis booklet at the financial issue, and this is also why he would have praised Hitler in the mid-thirties, after that regime had turned Germany from Europe's poorest nation into its most prosperous in but a few short years. That was the context for those observations, that seem strange otherwise, and they did not extend beyond it to the dark themes that were unfolding at the same time. Had Master gone more deeply into this topic of finance and corruption, it would have become intermingled with his teachings, or sidetracked from them. That was not his role. The drama will go on. The guru is there to get us out of the drama.
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Old 01-05-2018, 06:23 AM   #87
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I did a search for Master and Korea. This is from an article someone wrote on the topic of spiritual masters influencing world events. I don't know if the quotes are accurate, and have not seen this Korea-related information from an SRF source, nor have I ever heard a SRF minister reflect on it. So unless there is a verifiable source, such as a magazine from the past, I can't assume that Master uttered these words as they are printed below.


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....As was the case with Sri Aurobindo, Paramhansa Yogananda was said to have been spiritually active in influencing world events, in particular the Korean War. Yogananda stated:

"When South Korea was invaded by the north, I myself put the thought into President Truman's mind to go to its defense. That situation was a threat to the whole world. Had South Korea fallen, the communists would have gone on to Japan, and would then have come up and taken the Aleutian Islands, from where they would have invaded Alaska and North America. The whole world,ultimately, could have been swept up into the materialistic philosophy of communism. For these reasons it was very necessary that South Korea be defended. That is why I have called this a holy war."

Yogananda also commented on the role of sages in influencing the outcome of WWII. As Swami Kriyananda recounts:

"When Hitler first rose to power, Paramhansa Yogananda, for several reasons, saw some hope in that accession. One of those reasons was the unfairness of the Versailles Treaty, which had forced Germany into virtual destitution. He also saw, as he told a few people, that Hitler had been, in a former lifetime, Alexander "the Great" of Greece, who had shown an interest in the yogis of India. When Hitler allowed himself to be seized by ambition for power, however, that ambition distorted his potentially spiritual leanings. At that point, several masters began to work against him
[Aurobindo, the Mother, Narayan Maharaj, and Meher Baba, to name a few who were claimed to have done so]

.....They..put the thought in Hitler's mind to make mistakes that led to his eventual destruction. They suggested to him from within, for example, to divide his forces and fight both in the east and in the west, and also in Africa. This they did by feeding the confidence he felt in his own ability to win "everywhere." Militarily, there was no need for Germany to divide its fronts. That self-division proved, for it, a fatal error."

Yogananda said that Mussolini had been Marc Anthony in a past life, Stalin was Genghis Khan, and Churchill had been Napoleon (this might have been a small problem, as Sri Aurobindo was also said to have been Napoleon). When asked the same about FDR, he quipped,
"I've never told anybody...I was afraid I might get into trouble!"

Yogananda said that
"the divine purpose behind the Second World War was to liberate the 'third world' countries, most of which were British colonies."
Supposedly a part of this was karmic retribution against Churchill: as Napoleon
"he wanted to destroy England. As Churchill he had to preside over the dissolution of the British Empire."

Apparently, for Yogananda, as well as for Sri Aurobindo, the thought that the world bankers as well as secret societies and major power-elite actually funded the Russian Revolution, triggered WWI, orchestrated the Versailles Treaty and its inevitable repercussions, and also financially supported Hitler until several years into WWII, never crossed their mind. Whatever the divine plan was for the fate of the nations involved in these major conflicts, there was another plan that the sages and masters seem not to have been privy to, that of the Illuminati, who appeared to have achieved all of their major goals, to wit: the breakup of Germany as a major power, the fomenting of unrest in the Middle East, the handover of eastern Europe to the communists in order to create a Cold War, with the subsequent creation in the public mind of a need for a global governing body, first materialized in the incipient United Nations, and in dialectical fashion thus move a few steps closer to accomplishing their long-cherished New World Order.This topic is discussed in more detail within the article Sri Aurobindo and the Integral Yoga on this website. Divine plan or no divine plan, one obvious irony is that if the masters had not influenced Hitler to split his forces, but rather cooperated with his desire to make peace with England, he might have been able to prevail in his goal of stopping world communism and thereby avoid the consequences for humanity of both the Korean conflict and the Cold War - the outcome of which Yogananda said he had favorably influenced. "Who can fathom the mind of the Lord?", saith the psalmist.
Talk about a can of worms. There were several instances when communism could have been stopped.

In early 1918 Germany had won, by treaty, a huge amount of land and resources from Russia. Wouldn't that have helped to halt communism right in its tracks? If the spiritual masters can plant thoughts at will, why did they allow this treaty to be overturned by England in the Treaty of Versailles of 1919?

At the start of WWII, Nazi Germany was ideally positioned to stop communism, with its armies facing East. Why did the masters allow England to declare war on Germany after a little border squirmish in Poland in 1939? This changed the entire tone of the conflict, as now Hitler turned his armies towards the west.

Last, but not least, why did the masters not allow general Patton to charge on to Berlin, as he clearly foresaw the danger of an Iron Curtain falling over Eastern Europe? Once again, the command came from England to give Berlin to the Soviets.

England are the good guys in the field of battle, but in the realm of finance they are under the control of the house of Rothchild, which notoriously claimed that position through Napoleon's loss in the battle of Waterloo.

It would appear that on at least three occasions when the spread of communism could have been halted, England made a decision that prevented that. Therefore, if anything, there seems to be an opposing dark force that is just as powerful, in the earthly realm, as the thoughts of the masters, and it is not so easily controlled.

Getting back on topic. Even if preventing the spread of communism was worthy of a holy war, - of course it was!-, that no longer applies to the US involvement in the Middle and Far East today. Those are wars for profit; wars that tax the American people for trillions of dollars, and simply transfer the funds to corporations such as Halliburton.
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Old 01-05-2018, 07:40 AM   #88
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I did a search for Master and Korea. This is from an article someone wrote on the topic of spiritual masters influencing world events. I don't know if the quotes are accurate, and have not seen this Korea-related information from an SRF source, nor have I ever heard a SRF minister reflect on it. So unless there is a verifiable source, such as a magazine from the past, I can't assume that Master uttered these words as they are printed below.




Talk about a can of worms. There were several instances when communism could have been stopped.

In early 1918 Germany had won, by treaty, a huge amount of land and resources from Russia. Wouldn't that have helped to halt communism right in its tracks? If the spiritual masters can plant thoughts at will, why did they allow this treaty to be overturned by England in the Treaty of Versailles of 1919?

At the start of WWII, Nazi Germany was ideally positioned to stop communism, with its armies facing East. Why did the masters allow England to declare war on Germany after a little border squirmish in Poland in 1939? This changed the entire tone of the conflict, as now Hitler turned his armies towards the west.

Last, but not least, why did the masters not allow general Patton to charge on to Berlin, as he clearly foresaw the danger of an Iron Curtain falling over Eastern Europe? Once again, the command came from England to give Berlin to the Soviets.

England are the good guys in the field of battle, but in the realm of finance they are under the control of the house of Rothchild, which notoriously claimed that position through Napoleon's loss in the battle of Waterloo.

It would appear that on at least three occasions when the spread of communism could have been halted, England made a decision that prevented that. Therefore, if anything, there seems to be an opposing dark force that is just as powerful, in the earthly realm, as the thoughts of the masters, and it is not so easily controlled.

Getting back on topic. Even if preventing the spread of communism was worthy of a holy war, - of course it was!-, that no longer applies to the US involvement in the Middle and Far East today. Those are wars for profit; wars that tax the American people for trillions of dollars, and simply transfer the funds to corporations such as Halliburton.
The masters can only do so much. If you read Sri Aurobindo's account of trying to influence the outcome of events, you see that it remains a battle of good and evil, with Satan and his forces sometimes gaining the upper hand as well. Hitler was an instrument of evil; one of the four big asuras ('powers and principalities') who have sway over the world used to work through Hitler much of the time, and the 'voice' of the masters was just one of a number of spirits clamouring to have the psychic attention of Hitler during his decision making efforts. Sri Aurobindo wrote a fascinating account of this in a letter.


http://savitrieradevotees.blogspot.c...nd-mother.html


Sometimes events are the outcome of the evil forces winning a battle, like when Satan prevented Master from being able to have an audience with Hitler, or the voluminous other examples of times when, as Master said, Satan tries to frighten him or to destroy his life, but that God always makes Satan his footstool in the end.

You may be right that nefarious elements influenced some of the decision making of Bush & co. in invading Afghanistan and Iraq, but just how much of it was ultimately purposeful in preventing greater tragedies than 9/11 in the years since, you cant really say. Certainly to do nothing after 9/11 would have been disastrous, and at no time in her history is it something any sovereign nation could stomach to do nothing about. Measures were taken that werent necessarily the most practical or just, but somewhere in the mixture of light and dark, some of the necessary actions surely also took place. Today Bin Laden is dead, Al-Qaeda weakened, and now Isis also vastly overpowered. But no doubt there is a lot more required to make a lasting difference against the millions of extremists that are continuing to hijack Islam for their sinister and oppressive aims.

What Master said about America is that her karma is nevertheless the brightest in the karmic firmament and will remain so in the future, despite having to go through periods of great trial. India and America together, he said, will be the medium of bringing lasting spiritual and material benefit to the world. They are still just fairly distant allies today, so the day when they truly join forces hasnt even arrived yet.

One thing Im fairly certain about, is that Master would not support mocking or condemning Trump, for example. He would say that, without judgement, we should pray for every President to make the right decisions according to God's will for the ultimate good of America and the world.

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Old 01-05-2018, 11:26 AM   #89
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The masters can only do so much. If you read Sri Aurobindo's account of trying to influence the outcome of events, you see that it remains a battle of good and evil, with Satan and his forces sometimes gaining the upper hand as well. Hitler was an instrument of evil; one of the four big asuras ('powers and principalities') who have sway over the world used to work through Hitler much of the time, and the 'voice' of the masters was just one of a number of spirits clamouring to have the psychic attention of Hitler during his decision making efforts. Sri Aurobindo wrote a fascinating account of this in a letter.


http://savitrieradevotees.blogspot.c...nd-mother.html


Sometimes events are the outcome of the evil forces winning a battle, like when Satan prevented Master from being able to have an audience with Hitler, or the voluminous other examples of times when, as Master said, Satan tries to frighten him or to destroy his life, but that God always makes Satan his footstool in the end.

You may be right that nefarious elements influenced some of the decision making of Bush & co. in invading Afghanistan and Iraq, but just how much of it was ultimately purposeful in preventing greater tragedies than 9/11 in the years since, you cant really say. Certainly to do nothing after 9/11 would have been disastrous, and at no time in her history is it something any sovereign nation could stomach to do nothing about. Measures were taken that werent necessarily the most practical or just, but somewhere in the mixture of light and dark, some of the necessary actions surely also took place. Today Bin Laden is dead, Al-Qaeda weakened, and now Isis also vastly overpowered. But no doubt there is a lot more required to make a lasting difference against the millions of extremists that are continuing to hijack Islam for their sinister and oppressive aims.

What Master said about America is that her karma is nevertheless the brightest in the karmic firmament and will remain so in the future, despite having to go through periods of great trial. India and America together, he said, will be the medium of bringing lasting spiritual and material benefit to the world. They are still just fairly distant allies today, so the day when they truly join forces hasnt even arrived yet.

One thing Im fairly certain about, is that Master would not support mocking or condemning Trump, for example. He would say that, without judgement, we should pray for every President to make the right decisions according to God's will for the ultimate good of America and the world.
The "Lord of falsehood" guides the Left. Can you imagine this world with Iran, N. Korea and communist China being the world super powers guiding the fate of the planet, while the USA is weakened, strangled with internal strife and unable to counter that alliance?

The Left on many levels in U.S. society, including the government, had almost full control of the country thanks to Obamas vision and policies as he was a dedicated disciple of the progressive left and governed by those principles.

Hillarys presidency was going to be the last nail in the coffin to "fundamentally transform" (Obamas words) the USA into a Leftist country, one without common sense borders, compassion for hardened criminals, (at the expense of decent citizens), vindictive payback to white America and its founding, (including founding documents) for slavery, equating same sex marriage with heterosexual marriage,(read the SRF marriage vows) defunding and weakening the U.S. military while hostile regimes strengthened their military and nuclear technology, economic strangulation and redistribution of wealth via Marxist socialism, and in general trashing America as a country unworthy of its legacy of greatness, from the halls of academia (by Marxist academics) to the halls of Congress, (by Marxist politicians) and through sympathy in the liberal media.

However for the Left, their "utopian dream" was disrupted by Trumps election, and so furious and unhinged, they dug in their fox holes and developed a comprehensive strategy to destroy his presidency and take him down, and anyone who supported him, by any means possible, from the highest levels of government to the Bolshevik revolutionary streets of Berkeley where non-Leftists were barred from speaking and Leftist youth smashed windows to stop those speakers, using fascist methods, and at the same time saying they were opposing fascism: one of the characteristics of the Left is to project their negative qualities onto their opponents, and create confusion.

The "rage" and "hatred" really has its roots in the hatred of America by the Left. Trump just happens to be an easy target by being a rude New York, unsophisticated politician, who is not interested in diplomatic niceties and Leftist political correctness and some of his remarks on women are misogynistic.
But you can be sure that if a sterling Mormon character like Mitt Romney had been elected, and he supported conservative values, he would be attacked in a similar manner. It's the Left going berserk over someone who is thwarting their hopes and dreams for a new America, more along the lines of progressive Europe at best, and Venezuela at worst. For them Marx (or those same principles by a different name such as "social justice" and "income equality"), is a prophet, and George Washington, was a bigoted, slave holding white man "period", end of story, as were the other founders of the USA and the document they drew up "The Constitution" which is a nightmare to them, that needs to be replaced. A total negative view of the country, which they believe has no redeeming value at all, and zero virtue, other than a society that needs to be torn down and a new Marxist style society built on top of its white male dominated, imperialistic, xenophobic, homophobic, Islamaphobic, racist ashes.

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Old 01-05-2018, 11:40 AM   #90
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The masters can only do so much. If you read Sri Aurobindo's account of trying to influence the outcome of events, you see that it remains a battle of good and evil, with Satan and his forces sometimes gaining the upper hand as well. Hitler was an instrument of evil; one of the four big asuras ('powers and principalities') who have sway over the world used to work through Hitler much of the time, and the 'voice' of the masters was just one of a number of spirits clamouring to have the psychic attention of Hitler during his decision making efforts. Sri Aurobindo wrote a fascinating account of this in a letter.


http://savitrieradevotees.blogspot.c...nd-mother.html


Sometimes events are the outcome of the evil forces winning a battle, like when Satan prevented Master from being able to have an audience with Hitler, or the voluminous other examples of times when, as Master said, Satan tries to frighten him or to destroy his life, but that God always makes Satan his footstool in the end.
That is a very revealing link. That's how things really are. Today as well.

Among the things that stand out on that linked page is that it is very difficult, even for the masters, to predict the influence of the conscious dark force. For instance, Hitler had an estimated 50/50 chance at succeeding in 1941, which would have been very bad for the planet and mankind.

It also shows how complex things get, when both fascism and communism are heavily represented, and neither is a viable option. The masters backed the Allies, even if they would misuse the victory to some extent, because the alternative was not acceptable.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:26 AM   #91
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Jack, mayhaps you are demonizing Professor Obama by an excessive amount.

If not for else, he gave the green light to the raid onto Bin Laden's compound.

He understood that revenge was a necessity, yet he avoided civilian casualties, managed not to exceed (no trophy-pictures, a muslim funeral, an enemy killed in action which goes to the muslim paradise) so avoiding heavy retaliation from the Muslim world. That was a masterpiece of statemanship.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:21 PM   #92
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Jack, mayhaps you are demonizing Professor Obama by an excessive amount.

If not for else, he gave the green light to the raid onto Bin Laden's compound.

He understood that revenge was a necessity, yet he avoided civilian casualties, managed not to exceed (no trophy-pictures, a muslim funeral, an enemy killed in action which goes to the muslim paradise) so avoiding heavy retaliation from the Muslim world. That was a masterpiece of statemanship.

McCoy

The view you expressed is the one his staunch progressive supporters repeat.

The other side of the story is that he was pushed by his military advisors to do it against his will, until he finally gave in, and took all the credit for it, as information from the still active intelligence forces of Bush came to fruition. The common accompanying statement to yours is that, "He got OB Laden while Bush was not able to do it".

Regardless of careful avoidance of humiliating photo portrayals as you described, the retaliation and brutality from fundamentalist jihadists increased, since the principle they follow has been in place for centuries long before the invention of cameras or electronic media.
On a related idea, you also have to wonder if there would be murder, terrorism and mayhem in the streets of Christians or Buddhists if their beliefs were ridiculed? There were statues of Buddha destroyed in Afghanistan, thousands of years old, for simply not honoring the correct religion. The same happened in Iraq, with ancient Assyrian monuments and statues thousands of years old, monuments to the human race in the cradle of civilization, being blown up and destroyed, for not being the correct religion, despite Obamas "diplomatic military philosophy", or any perceived U.S. aggression and insulting behavior, so go figure.

He also supported the Muslim Brotherhood who overthrew Mubarek. They were the modern day source of jihadist inspiration for OB Ladens movement. Obama then provided them with advanced fighter jets and tanks. The Egyptian people did not want the Brotherhoods 7th century view of the world and overthrew them, and wanted to return to a more modern style government, rather than the one that would be developed under the MB. Obama was not happy about the removal of the Muslim Brotherhood regime which he supported.

Also, Obama made no secret that did not like his own country and what it stood for. He toured the world apologizing for the past actions of the USA, since he believed, as do all leftist progressives, that his own country is the source of evils around the world, (as do all Marxists) and felt that the USA should lead from behind and diminish its status quo leader position on the world stage.

He also, with sparce but choice words from the "Bully Pulpit" of the presidents office, inflamed racial tensions during controversial police shootings, and began through federal regulations, a campaign of neutering all police forces in the USA and painting them with a racist brush, and silently encouraged "white guilt" to be taught in educational institutions, which resulted by many on the Left to paint all white Americans as racist simply by being born in the white race. Using simple logic, you can see that this is the exact opposite mirror reaction to painting all persons of the black race in a negative manner both views (not just one) are racist if you want to be honest about the analysis.

Also, through inaction and appeasement to totalitarians, giving billions of dollars to the 7th century Mullahs in Iran to build up their nuclear weapons capability, and refusing to come down hard and "decisive" on people who enjoy cutting innocent fellow human beings heads off for not submitting to their religious beliefs, by being tentative and wavering in his military principles.
Also, the US military is ALWAYS trying to minimize civilian harm while fight horrible, messy and terrible wars, "War" being the nightmare that it is. It didn't start with Obama.

So, "Professor Obama" (who as a University Professor taught radical Left ideology) is not so wise, despite his lucid speech, wide grins, stoic demeanor and oratory talents looking at it from a different perspective rather than from the view of his hard core supporters, which includes a lot of the U.S. and international media. On "international progressive leftism", he was given the Nobel Peace Prize before he accomplished anything as president. That is because, the international progressives recognized him as someone who viewed the world and the USA as a detriment to world cooperation and peace, and they knew he was going to do what they believed to be best for the world which was to take the USA down several notches, and minimize its position as world leader. So tyrants, totalitarians and jihadists seen the possibilities for increasing their own power and influence, who then ran amok giving us the world situation we have now and a progressive left world view which ends up resulting in the recent majority vote in the UN condemning the USA.

Just to get ahead of one facet of your possible reply, during Obamas presidency, the leader of N. Korea was displaying well crafted graphic videos to the N. Korean people, publicly showing the nuclear destruction of the United States.

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Old 01-07-2018, 03:32 PM   #93
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Cant we move this thread to Social Awarness, Politics .... Thanks in advance!
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Old 01-08-2018, 03:16 AM   #94
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Jack, LOL, you are really a staunch critic of the Professor, to understate it!

I read his book 'The audicity of hope', written when he was still a senator and liked it. In the book he wrote the contrary of what you observed, that is he upholded an America with strong military power and influence.

In that book he sounded like the ideal compromise between progressives and conservatives. Was he compelled to change behaviour while in charge? I don't know, many details you wrote are unknwonw to me. At this point what I can say:

Obama, as the supreme chief of the armed forces of USA, had to give the final green light to the raid against UBL. He gave it. The ultimate merit is his own. I could go own with details, but that it is.

Retiring from Irak: either you annex a country or retire from it, you cannot keep it occupied forever, too costly. Again, if there was a mistake in Irak, it was not annexing it to the USA. Retirement was part of the (wrong) long term strategy, decided even before Obama was in charge.

Lybia, Egipt, etc: Here the facts showed that Obama was wrong. Why he made himself receptive to the wrong suggestions of his French and British allies I don't know.
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:19 AM   #95
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Jack, LOL, you are really a staunch critic of the Professor, to understate it!

I read his book 'The audicity of hope', written when he was still a senator and liked it. In the book he wrote the contrary of what you observed, that is he upholded an America with strong military power and influence.

In that book he sounded like the ideal compromise between progressives and conservatives. Was he compelled to change behaviour while in charge? I don't know, many details you wrote are unknwonw to me. At this point what I can say:

Obama, as the supreme chief of the armed forces of USA, had to give the final green light to the raid against UBL. He gave it. The ultimate merit is his own. I could go own with details, but that it is.

Retiring from Irak: either you annex a country or retire from it, you cannot keep it occupied forever, too costly. Again, if there was a mistake in Irak, it was not annexing it to the USA. Retirement was part of the (wrong) long term strategy, decided even before Obama was in charge.

Lybia, Egipt, etc: Here the facts showed that Obama was wrong. Why he made himself receptive to the wrong suggestions of his French and British allies I don't know.
I have the same book McCoy.

What he says or writes and what he does is not necessarily the same.
Idealistic philosophy does not necessarily translate to similar actions when you are in the hot seat. Then, your true core beliefs dictate your actions.
His true core beliefs are progressive-left and his real world decisions betrayed his high sounding moderate rhetoric, which mesmerized everyone, including you evidently.

He said he was against same sex marriage, then changed his mind 180 degrees. You can say, "well a person can change their views".
If that is true, then don't quote his book as the gospel.

He said that with his "Affordable Care Act" (Obamacare) you could keep your doctor. That was a lie, and that is from personal experience including other aspects of ACA which you probably do not hear about in Europe, but rather hear how wonderful, efficient and compassionate that program is, and the rotten greedy, racist conservatives want to eliminate it. That is the progressive-left view.

He said, adamantly that immigrants who come into the USA illegally will not be able to get Obamacare. That was also a lie as they were signed up.

The list of deception is long.

You evidently do not get the entire story. That is due to the blackout of opposite views in your media there or so it seems. As is fact, he received the Nobel Peace Prize before he had accomplished anything as President. Does that not raise questions as to the progressive bias of European intellectuals, who anointed him as virtually a saint?

He was not "an ideal compromise between conservatives and progressives".
That is how the media characterized him, to hide the truth about his true beliefs. Otherwise, he would not have been elected president.
He was a progressive-leftist, absolutely and unequivocally and that is how he governed and instituted his policies. He even taught those progressive-left principles as a professor in the university.

In conclusion, there are many aspects of this unknown to you, most likely because your media does not talk about it, or painted his actions with a biased brush, and have a view similar to the Nobel committee.

That is why I was asking you how your media is reporting various news stories about what is happening in the U.S., and the world.

Progressives dominate the world media and even the U.S.media so that is the POV you will get. It is deliberate and organic.

Talk to me McCoy......LOL

How is your media reporting the news?

Also, in Italy, is the internet wide open and unrestricted in content?

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Old 01-08-2018, 01:24 PM   #96
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One thing Im fairly certain about, is that Master would not support mocking or condemning Trump, for example. He would say that, without judgement, we should pray for every President to make the right decisions according to God's will for the ultimate good of America and the world.
Probably so.

You'd think that a country with so many people could come up with better candidates. Trump was elected because people didn't want Hillary. Hillary was dead-set on starting a war with Russia. The globalists practically demanded that war. Why? Because Putin was about to send the petrodollar to its grave. It's too late now, because the Russia/China axis, revolving around a gold-back Yuan, can no longer be stopped.

Trump is smarter than his critics think. I suspect he threw Israel a bone (Jerusalem) to get the jewish-owned media in the US off his back. It seems to have worked.

It wouldn't surprise me if Trump actually likes Kim Jong-Un. The guy is too much like himself not to like. He's basically joking with him now about who has the bigger button. The pressure is off. They're both laughing behind the scenes.
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:47 PM   #97
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I do not think that Trump is the action man. He seems very confuse, he must have the real power persons behind him, he is just fulfilling orders.

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Old 01-08-2018, 03:32 PM   #98
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Yeah, the neocons took over. The election result is 'safely' adjusted in the two months between the election and the inauguration. There was always the risk that the neocons would see their chance. With Obama, who had strongly opposed Wall Street's corrupt ways during his campaign, it was immediately clear that he was not the one in charge when he filled up his cabinet with Wall Street people.
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Old 01-08-2018, 05:06 PM   #99
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Yeah, the neocons took over. The election result is 'safely' adjusted in the two months between the election and the inauguration. There was always the risk that the neocons would see their chance. With Obama, who had strongly opposed Wall Street's corrupt ways during his campaign, it was immediately clear that he was not the one in charge when he filled up his cabinet with Wall Street people.
What about a SRF-Group doing the love and harmony affirmation for the US Government + backstage for a month? Or devotees in each country do this affirmation for their government for one month??? Should show results somehow. I am already doing this for the Germans since we have no government since September.
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Old 01-10-2018, 06:30 PM   #100
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What about a SRF-Group doing the love and harmony affirmation for the US Government + backstage for a month? Or devotees in each country do this affirmation for their government for one month??? Should show results somehow. I am already doing this for the Germans since we have no government since September.
It's a good idea.

I'm intrigued by the concept of the masters planting thoughts in minds. If Master took an interest in the president of the US, then surely, as his chelas, we can ask him to plant any thought, pertaining to any spiritual quality, in our minds.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:09 AM   #101
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It's a good idea.

I'm intrigued by the concept of the masters planting thoughts in minds. If Master took an interest in the president of the US, then surely, as his chelas, we can ask him to plant any thought, pertaining to any spiritual quality, in our minds.
We do that when we follow Master's advice to ask for devotion.
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Old 01-11-2018, 03:16 AM   #102
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We have the teaching, we know how the cosmos does work. We have to work for a better world. Thats why we came during these times. I am always amazed....! TM had a group of yogis meditating in the Middle East for months many hours daily. Gandhi and his followers did 'work' for years.

I do not mean that all should run and do this but somehow we have to shape the world in harmony with our Guru.

What do you mean Stream with these words:
If Master took an interest in the president of the US....

If??? Sorry! He does! He has interest in all HIS children.

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Old 01-11-2018, 09:29 AM   #103
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We have the teaching, we know how the cosmos does work. We have to work for a better world. Thats why we came during these times. I am always amazed....! TM had a group of yogis meditating in the Middle East for months many hours daily. Gandhi and his followers did 'work' for years.

I do not mean that all should run and do this but somehow we have to shape the world in harmony with our Guru.

What do you mean Stream with these words:
If Master took an interest in the president of the US....

If??? Sorry! He does! He has interest in all HIS children.

It came up in the thread earlier on. Master, apparently, said that he himself planted the seed in the president's mind for the Korean war.

So I meant it from a devotee perspective. A president is 'just' a president. We are Master's chelas. So if we want to develop a certain spiritual quality, a direct way would be to ask Master to plant the thought in our consciousness.


In terms of praying for the world I do recall an effort that was 'by all relligions' in the second half of the 1980's decade, where we offered the hours of our prayers and meditations to world peace and harmony. It may have worked, because the Soviet Union fell apart later, without a shot being fired.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:41 PM   #104
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It came up in the thread earlier on. Master, apparently, said that he himself planted the seed in the president's mind for the Korean war.

So I meant it from a devotee perspective. A president is 'just' a president. We are Master's chelas. So if we want to develop a certain spiritual quality, a direct way would be to ask Master to plant the thought in our consciousness.


In terms of praying for the world I do recall an effort that was 'by all relligions' in the second half of the 1980's decade, where we offered the hours of our prayers and meditations to world peace and harmony. It may have worked, because the Soviet Union fell apart later, without a shot being fired.
I've started doing the healing service after meditation. One, it makes me feel more connected and less helpless - but I try to feel it;s not me at all, because of course that's true, God is the Doer.

Still, if more and more people become kriya yogis and do the healing service, it can change the world for the better....someday, but the world will never be perfect, as Master says, there will always be rascals causing trouble, no matter what yuga.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:06 PM   #105
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I have read the Service Reading 'What is love' recently during a trip. All is in there. Such a beautiful description and also Master does talk about love in a way that we can easily expierence what might happen to us in the moment of death.

I do constantly pray and affirm when 'hanging' around. I do pray also for Trump and others, I do pray for all souls around. I make affirmations when sitting in a train or plane. It is so easy to see the connection of all. Why not praying for somebody starting a war or sinner. It is all the same. Once when in a traffic jam for one hour (just standing on the freeway) I did sent an OM to each car on the other lane with traffic flowing. After 15 minutes I was in deep joy. Better then getting angry and nervous.

Only love can change evil, they cant stand this. I have been in situations of danger and they did vanish always since a little voice told me: Give them love and I just did this with my heart. One can switch from one second to another to the state of deep compassion and love for all 'atoms' around. But during some situations one has to feel love and courage, both together.

Once Master gave me a good test. I came to my hotel after being with friends around 1am. I took the elevator and a man joined me last minute in there as well. I even could not get out anymore. He did not press a button and left the same floor like me. I marched into my aisle - he behind me. I tried to stay couragous and strong. When I reached my door I could not open it, the man was standing behind me and watched, after a few seconds he said: Sorry Lady, but this is my room. Ohh,...I was shocked :-). We stayed door to door in this hotel. Master must have had fun. I did feel His protection all the time.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:29 PM   #106
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Once Master gave me a good test. I came to my hotel after being with friends around 1am. I took the elevator and a man joined me last minute in there as well. I even could not get out anymore. He did not press a button and left the same floor like me. I marched into my aisle - he behind me. I tried to stay couragous and strong. When I reached my door I could not open it, the man was standing behind me and watched, after a few seconds he said: Sorry Lady, but this is my room. Ohh,...I was shocked :-). We stayed door to door in this hotel. Master must have had fun. I did feel His protection all the time.
lol.

Great movie scene!
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:43 PM   #107
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lol.

Great movie scene!
Maybe this was my karmic payment for another incident. Just came to my mind. I have been with a friend in a resort hotel for my birthday. She did not feel well and went to the room which we shared. I told her that I might get another key from the reception and stayed for desert. When I went to reception and asked them to give me a key or open the door for me a valet just came with me and opened a door. It was not my room !!!!, a huge US man jumped straight up in the bed till the ceiling. I was more shocked than him and the valet giggled. Wrong floor sorry!!!
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:10 AM   #108
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lol

He probably thought 'they' came to kill him.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:42 AM   #109
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I have the same book McCoy....
.....
Talk to me McCoy......LOL
How is your media reporting the news?
Also, in Italy, is the internet wide open and unrestricted in content?
Jack, Re. the book: yes, I noticed that he changed his mind about gay marriage and the peace Nobel price nomination was a hoax, as many Noble prize nominations are. It is very well known that the Nobel prize commitees are very biased toward the communist thinkers. It happened that an Italian supporter of communist terrorists was given such a prize. This is why we should totally ignore the fact that literates or humanists are given the Nobel. Such bias may exist even in the scientifical subjects but I don't know for sure.

I don't know all the other aspects you cite but other people have complained that Obama did not do what he preached, including Stream in another previous thread if I remember well. So there must be some truth in that.

Sorry I can't tell you about Italian media but I absolutely don't watch them, I started being bored to death, really, same old, same old. Sometimes I watch CNN, sometimes I read Stratfor geopolitical comments, but rarely now.

There is no internet restriction that I know.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:32 PM   #110
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Jack, Re. the book: yes, I noticed that he changed his mind about gay marriage and the peace Nobel price nomination was a hoax, as many Noble prize nominations are. It is very well known that the Nobel prize commitees are very biased toward the communist thinkers. It happened that an Italian supporter of communist terrorists was given such a prize. This is why we should totally ignore the fact that literates or humanists are given the Nobel. Such bias may exist even in the scientifical subjects but I don't know for sure.

I don't know all the other aspects you cite but other people have complained that Obama did not do what he preached, including Stream in another previous thread if I remember well. So there must be some truth in that.

Sorry I can't tell you about Italian media but I absolutely don't watch them, I started being bored to death, really, same old, same old. Sometimes I watch CNN, sometimes I read Stratfor geopolitical comments, but rarely now.

There is no internet restriction that I know.
McCoy

Interesting what you said about the Nobel Committee. I knew they were biased but did not know they were that bad, but it makes sense, since Obama is simply a Leftist-Progressive, hands down, and that is why the Nobel committee anointed him, because he harshly criticized his home capitalist based country the USA.

What matters to such a person is not "brilliant compassionate principles" as much as is the progressive "ideology", and it is based on Marxism and a "post USA super power", "post Western society" view of the world political dynamic.

Progressives have distanced themselves from Marx or the term, "Marxism" (or Cultural Marxism") as "an old outdated dead philosophy", and deny that it represents them. However they have kept Marxist precepts and ideology alive and implement those same Marxist based veiled ideas under different names such as "social justice" and "income equality" and claim they are an entirely different breed, which they are not. It's the same ideas with a new name.

That is clearly demonstrated by the seminal supporter of those "progressive" ideas, Bernie Sanders, who took his marital honeymoon in the old Soviet Union, USSR, and professes his opposition to any pro US policy, unless of course it favors strict centralized state socialism. He is just more honest about it than Obama, who hides behind a veneer of being an "enlightened moderate genius", and so do his staunch supporters.
Hillary was a progressive combination of both of them, and also self serving to her own personal fortune and power.

If you watch CNN then that is why you have not heard about "the other aspects" because they will never report such things and will only report favorably on Obama and the "NEW" progressive-left Democrat party.
CNN is sometimes humorously called the "Clinton News Network" or the "Communist News Network".

That network is 24-7 trashing Trump and the conservatives, doing their best to bring him and the GOP down, and ridicule everything he does and everyone around him, through innuendo, smears and negative reporting.

This new Democrat party is entirely different than the old U.S. Democrat party of JFK who defended his home country and challenged the USSR and its superior nuclear arsenal which was equal to and just as lethal as the USA arsenal, during the Cuban missile crisis, when the USSR was setting up missile launching pads in Cuba, 90 miles from Florida, which brought the world closer to nuclear war than any other president.

Now, the same party of JFK (with a different and new progressive left agenda) and all its supporters are going berserk over Trump challenging a much more inferior country with a less developed nuclear arsenal and is being called a disgusting lunatic for doing so, while JFK was praised as courageous and unflinching. If you look at it honestly, you see 2 men standing up to a communist regime which is threatening with nuclear missiles.

JFKs Speech threatening nuclear war to USSR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmA9CZqAWO4

It's true that Trump runs off his mouth too much, is not a smooth slick talking politician and blurts out tweets that make him look bad, but he does not care, and is not "politically correct" in toeing the Progressive verbal hypocritical discourse so ubiquitous currently in todays world. "Political Correctness" is the new vernacular and "new morality" of the Progressive Left. Saying things like "America First" is a mortal sin and blasphemous to the progressives, just ask the Nobel committee.

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Old 01-17-2018, 06:31 AM   #111
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"Political Correctness" is the new vernacular and "new morality" of the Progressive Left.
PC is a real problem. I don't think I have ever seen such a silly movement, where people are supposed to go out of their way not to - potentially - say or do anything that could - potentially - be conceived as harmful to others. A mass worship of the easily hurt ego. The exact opposite of the spiritual path. There is a good chance that many of those people will never mature, being trained as they are at an early age to lay the blame for their unfortunate state of consciousness with others.
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Old 01-17-2018, 07:00 AM   #112
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Jack, yes, that's how I see it, very simply, Mr. Trump opposing a sick egomaniac dictator in a dystopian reality who has developed (real or not?) the potential to destroy his not so dystopian neighbours and flaunts about it.

All other details are mainly irrelevant.

Also, at the beginning I thought Trump was very undiplomatic and maybe foolish with his statements but he eventually won the presidency, so that was the attitude most of Americans appreciated: the direct thruth, I say what I think, no hypocrisy.

So, calling Haiti a '$hithole' is sure not an example of overwhelming diplomacy, but we all know that the truth, rudely stated, is just that. A $hithole in this context is a synonim of an 'horrible mess'. No one can deny it. Why to cling to external formalities and neglect the truth of the substance?
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Old 01-18-2018, 08:07 AM   #113
luvpeacejoy
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Originally Posted by mccoy View Post
Jack, yes, that's how I see it, very simply, Mr. Trump opposing a sick egomaniac dictator in a dystopian reality who has developed (real or not?) the potential to destroy his not so dystopian neighbours and flaunts about it.

All other details are mainly irrelevant.

Also, at the beginning I thought Trump was very undiplomatic and maybe foolish with his statements but he eventually won the presidency, so that was the attitude most of Americans appreciated: the direct thruth, I say what I think, no hypocrisy.

So, calling Haiti a '$hithole' is sure not an example of overwhelming diplomacy, but we all know that the truth, rudely stated, is just that. A $hithole in this context is a synonim of an 'horrible mess'. No one can deny it. Why to cling to external formalities and neglect the truth of the substance?
How does one define a '$hithole' or a 'horrible mess'.

Human beings from economically poor countries may not necessarily be morally and spiritually decrepit. Haiti citizens are examples of survivors. They fought the ravages of an earthquake with great strength and fortitude. They may be poor and perhaps not as well educated or up the social ladder as Trump, but if I were to actually put people in a bucket labeled '$hithole', i would put Trump there for being morally bankrupt -- full of lies, lust, greed and racism. One year as President and there isn't much he can take credit for, except reflect the poor choice made by American citizens.

A country blessed with prosperity and resources can always share some of its bounty with the underprivileged. The eternal divine law of giving and sharing has been given a bad name by the selfish -- 'socialism'.

I cannot believe people actually think Trump did right by demeaning the poor and the uneducated.

It would be good to reflect on the words of Guru Paramhansa Yogananda, "but for the grace of God, there goes me'.

Last edited by luvpeacejoy; 01-18-2018 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:54 PM   #114
Jack O Lantern
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Originally Posted by luvpeacejoy View Post

The eternal divine law of giving and sharing has been given a bad name by the selfish -- 'socialism'.


http://www.cpusa.org/

https://www.solidarity-us.org/sot

http://www.internationalsocialist.org/about/what-we-do

http://www.internationalsocialist.org/

https://socialistworker.org/

https://theintercept.com/2017/08/04/...rship-chicago/


It would be good to reflect on the words of Guru Paramhansa Yogananda.

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